It all began when GM's Bob Lutz challenged some automotive journalists owners (later on the invitation was extended to private owners) to find a stock production sports sedan that could outperform the CTS-V (yes, that's the one with the 556HP supercharged V8) on the track. In other words, Lutz and consequently GM, put their 'car' where their mouth is.The date and the place for the contest was set for Thursday, October 29 at the Monticello Motor Club race track in New York.
One of the automakers that initially accepted Lutz's challenge was Jaguar which was supposed to supply Jalopnik's Wes Siler with an XFR. However, the Indian-owned British automaker had a last-minute change of heart, or as Ray Wert craftily put it, they totally 'pussed out'...
Here's what Stuart Schorr, Jaguar and Land Rover's U.S, PR man told Jalopnik on Tuesday:
"... I was concerned that five hot laps without added brake cooling system could compromise the stopping power and thus create a safety concern for your driver. The car can handle it. The CTS-V is probably the fastest car of the class on the track, whether it's the best car of its class is a different matter. I wonder if your readers think the fastest on track car is the best car?"
Later in the evening, the folks over at 'The GM Source' website which is not affiliated with the American automaker, asked Luts "what his reaction was to Jag pulling out of the race" and "what this says to solidify the true "awesomeness" of the CTS-V". Here's Lutz's response:
"I think it means that the European high-performance sedans are excellent, even superb cars, but quite possibly not ready for racing laps right out of the show-room. The CTS-V is not only quicker, but will, in totally untweaked, stock form, run hot laps at any race track until it runs out of fuel."
"Transmission oil and diff oil temps are stable, engine oil temp doesn't go up, brakes get a bit more pedal travel, but don't fade. The street tires get a tad greasy, but handling and control remain excellent. "May the best car win"! (It wins automatically if the competitors won't show up!)"
Of course nothing is as simple as it seems - for example, knock on wood, but can you imagine the PR disaster if Jalop's driver has a misfortunate exit with the car?
Then again, besides the fact that this goes both ways, Jaguar's PR department should have taken all these factors in consideration before saying yes.
We'll just hold tight and see if Lutz's 'bet' turns out to be a great publicity boost for Cadillac, or not. But for the time being, GM has Jaguar as well as the other German premium automakers (Audi, BMW and Mercedes) that haven't accepted Lutz's challenge totally pwned in the eyes of readers / consumers.
Sources: Jalopnik , TheGMsource and CTS-V Challenge
23 Comments:
The picture of that cat up top is kinda disturbing...
GM really needs to sponsor the "Residual Value Challenge" as the CTS-V would be at the bottom. No fan of the Jaguar, but no fan of GM vehicles either. And what is Cadillac these days? It is positively not a luxury vehicle, more along the lines of semi or near luxury vehicles, but not they do not quality for the luxury category.
Last question: Why is Lutz still around? Seriously, they can use him to do carbon dating benchmarking.
cant see the jag or even an m5 havin enough grunt down the straights.. audi rs6 would stand best chance
Jalopnik is still going through with the race using a Mitsubishi Lancer EVO X MR. And is waiting to see if BMW steps up to the track.
Lutz is still around becasue there isn't any corp big-wigs anymore that dare put their money where mouth is. He talks like a grumpy old man and all the stale big-wigs are too timid; not enough of a car guy, too much business man in the automotive business to care about what the dynamics of a car, to even do what he's doing.
The day Carlos Ghosn challenges all comers with his GTR would be the day we see a big-wig with enough drive and balls like Lutz has. So far, Chosn isn't biting. Lutz is, and he's smearing it in the face of Jag and Merc.
At his age, I can't see why you wouldn't want to retire on a high note...and doing so while challenging the best the automotive world has to offer for mid-size performance luxary supremacy is the icing on the cake.
Lutz helped run GM right into the ground. Now, he's kept around for the big retirement payout. BTW, Lutz's despised the Sigma team that formed the genesis for the CTS ... here he is touting it! Lutz is a carpetbagger.
Or perhaps he could have changed his mind.
It's not uncommon for people to do that, you know.
Lutz pussywhiped Jaguar and its XFR. What kind of a performance car is it if they're afraid to put it on the track?
Nice...
All this publicity for the Jag too. I'd take the Jag over the Cadilac anyday, thank you Mr. Lutz for promoting the Jag.
I know which car I'd rather have any day, and it ain't the Cadillac. Looks like Carscoop has some agenda against Jaguar after the XJ "debacle". Come on, grow up, you know that having the fastest car doesn't mean it's the best car, nor is pulling out shameful. Just start writing proper articles instead of continuing your Jaguar hatchet job, thanks.
^ Carscoop and every other site that reported the news? Please give us an example of Carscoop's agenda against Jaguar - no please do.
Who said anything about the fastest car? The whole debate here (according to Jaguar) was if the XFR would actually handle the heat on a race track.
Plus, we also referred to other German makers that didn't accept the challenge.
Instead of writing anonymous comments, I suggest that you try learning a thing or two on how to do your job in a professional manner...
Of course that agenda may be unsubstantiated and is now being denied by you, but you do recognize that you had previous antagonism towards Jag's PR folk as seen in your post on the company's supposed media double standards; which I trust has no bearing whatsoever on that rather grotesque cat, superimposed on the Jag? (http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2009/07/our-take-on-jaguars-double-standards.html) Don't get me wrong though, I agree with you that Jag's PR shills made a misstep back then.
While I agree with you that the Jaguar PR man's explanation for the withdrawal was pretty weak, my point is that while the Cadillac may be the fastest car, it isn't necessarily the best car. Even if Jaguar or the Germans (which you made a short, passing reference to at the end of the article) lost in that rather contrived challenge, it might have had very little impact on consumers' perceptions.
This will be useless test. Just wach Top Gear UK and compare the lap times there. Same conditions, same driver (recently). And just any driver, but the most succesfull driver ever - M.Schumacher. Or they've probably never heard of him in the US, most of them.
Is GM a car maker, or a small garrage tuning comany. This is awefull such a big company to ashame itself with talking so much rubbish. Your cars are crap and made to last 2 years just to be cheaper to buy. There are some exceptions, but not much really.
All you did is make a reference to the story on the leaked XJ photos. What exactly did we do after that? Give us one example of the agenda that followed - just one. Apparently you can't because there is no agenda. Period.
You write an anonymous comment - why not reveal who you are?- accusing us of something that you simply cannot justify just because we reported the news on Jaguar's withdrawal from the competition as all other sites did.
"which you made a short, passing reference to". That's all the information that was available for the German automakers. If Jalopnik or any other site had more info, we'd be more than willing to report it.
Simply put, get over it and move on. You are not doing any favors to Jaguar by severely twisting facts to suit your (?) position.
Lutz is just another pompous Yank that needs to talk down on others to make himself feel better. Typical bully behaviour that comes from their own hidden away bad self-confidence.
And the Evo would probably kick the CTS-V's ass eventhough it has less power. Power isn't everything.
accusing us of something that you simply cannot justify just because we reported the news on Jaguar's withdrawal from the competition as all other sites did.
>> You asked and I provided an example. Now, the issue is not that all other sites reported Jaguar's withdrawal, but the manner in which you reported it. An attention grabbing headline "Jaguar "Wusses Out" of Lutz's Cadillac CTS-V Challenge at Monticello Race Track, GM Scores a Media Touchdown", that superimposed cat on that car, amongst others. Humorous? Sure, bias? I can argue all day and you'd have your right of reply, let's just let readers decide whether your previous antagonism had a bearing on the manner this post was crafted.
"which you made a short, passing reference to". That's all the information that was available for the German automakers. If Jalopnik or any other site had more info, we'd be more than willing to report it.
>> This article is about Jaguar's withdrawal from that contrived contest, and your short reference to the Germans doesn't detract from the emphasis. See your first post re reporting on the Germans as well.
Allow me to say that while I congratulate you for spending so much time on this matter, this and the fact that you constantly post anonymously, is suspicious to say the least.
Now, as an example you repeatedly provide the post (in other words the 'cause') that in your opinion, lead to this imaginary agenda. Again, show us one post after that, which proves your so-called 'agenda'? Which part of this do you not understand? Help me out here, as I'm trying my best to explain this in the simplest of ways.
As for the title, picture, well, we pray for your forgiveness and next time we solemnly swear to ask your/Jaguar's permission to use humor in our posts.
And oh for the record, here are a few titles from other sites (wow, seems like everyone has an 'agenda' against Jaguar and the way its PRs handled this situation)
Jalopnik: Jaguar Pusses Out Of Jalopnik Vs. GM Race
Motorauthority: Jaguar Wimps Out Of Cadillac CTS-V Challenge
Edmunds: CTS-V Challenge: Jaguar Bails, Lutz Talks Smack
At the end of the day you're completely wrong about this and biased beyond any doubt. And you know why? Because, you can't say a thing about the report nor about your imaginary agenda.
To put it simply, your problem with Carscoop is why we reported the facts on a matter that Jaguar would have preferred to be kept under secrecy.
Well, like it or not, we will not be discouraged nor intimidated by anyone and will continue to report from these pages now and in the future.
Do the contenders get to be dyno'ed before the race?... Seems like a huge incentive to cheating without it.
"This will be useless test. Just wach Top Gear UK and compare the lap times there. Same conditions, same driver (recently). And just any driver, but the most succesfull driver ever - M.Schumacher. Or they've probably never heard of him in the US, most of them."
Newsflash: Michael Schumacher isn't the real Stig.
Even bigger news, the Top Gear caravan fire was scripted.
EVERYTHING Top Gear produces for show needs to be critical analized and brought into question. Since I learned that about the fire, I now wonder if their hot lap board is legit or if what they depict happening actually did happen.
Case in point, watch Clarkson's Fiat police car. Did that wheel actually fall off, or can you see for a split second when they cut to Hammond and May the device that launched the rolling wheel at Hammond and May so that they may complete the illusion of a wheel rolling out of control?
I did, and I've held Top Gear under heavy scrutiny ever since. Everything on Top Gear needs to be questioned.
John....why take everything so personally? It demeans you and the site. Allow people to comment, but don't get so angry, it's disturbing to read. We all enjoy your site for what it is.
Also why allow people to comment anonymously? Change the comment drop down menu so a name has to be inserted.
The CTS-V IS the best car (period). I mean, damn, what does a car company have to produce to please some people? I'm not a Caddy fan; never was, but the CTS-V is an enthusiast's car. I roam automotive message boards everyday. Needless to say, the CTS-V is making enthusiasts rethink Caddy the way the Genesis Coupe is making us rething Hyundai.
BTW, fastest is not "best". I can tune a Civic to blow the doors off of a Corvette, but I'd rather have the Corvette. However, the CTS-V is not only fast, it's sexy, it performs and the cockpit is gorgeous. To me it is the best car because of all these things collectively. And before anyone goes saying that I'm a fanboy, I'm not. I drive a G37S Coupe and have never owned an American car, but if I could afford the CTS-V, it'd be a done deal.
Which of you guys has ever rode in the Jag, or the CTS-V for that matter? How can you decide that you'd have the Caddy over the Jaguar if you've never even sat in one before?
Plus, this whole track thing is now ridiculous. How many of you readers would ever truly use even 80% of either of these cars' power.
Sure one may be faster than the other around a track but so what, you'll never know fully how fast these cars are in reality as 90% of you will never get to drive on around a track in either the CTS-V or that beautifully-styled Jag.
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